What Grape(s) Do NOT Reflect Terroir???

[Bill_H_o_o_p_e_r]

@GregT

Guys - if you think Riesling really shows where it’s from, how often have you done blind tastings of Rieslings from specific regions and tried to identify them? Yeah, when you pour me something and talk about the granite and then pour me something else and talk about the limestone, I can follow you. But do it blind.

Greg,
Once or twice a week we do blind tastings of other producers wines from all over Germany. It is surprisingly simple to nail-down wines from different villages if not individual vineyards. We might not be able to say Pechstein or Kirchenstück, but BASALT is very easy to get. I don’t think anyone would mistake a Pfalz wine for a Mosel or Rheingau. Even more to the point, it is pretty easy to pick out Wachenheim, Forst, Haardt, or Deidesheim wines –all of which lie within about 10 km of each other. Hardly any of them show any petrol characteristics. We have such an incredible array of terroir here and a few vineyards with absolutely individual personalities –Forster Kirchenstück & Pechstein, Birkweiler Kastanienbusch, Burrweiler Schäwer, and Haardter Burgergarten to name just a couple. Sure, naming Graacher Domprobst from Himmelreich is more difficult given that they are both slate, but Riesling absolutely shows very wide differences depending on where it is grown.

Cheers,
Bill

[GregT]

Bill - You’re familiar with those places, obviously intimately, and consequently are able to make those distinctions. I can do that with some places, not so much with others, and not to the degree you apparently can. I have friends elsewhere who make wine from very different grapes - they can do the same, clearly understanding their vineyard and how it differs from their neighbor’s.

And it’s going to be true of any grape if you parse it that finely among people with a deep understanding of the grape and specific regions. Then I would argue that there is NO grape that wouldn’t reflect terroir, which is what I actually believe anyway.

So I was being rather glib and to give a more thoughtful answer, would say that some grapes speak loudly and usually identify themselves as what they are - Cab, Riesling, Muscat, Pinot Noir, for example, and some grapes don’t say much at all about themselves and can be mistaken for other things - Chardonnay, Pinot Gris, Syrah for example.

As far as whether one or the other reflects terroir more or less than another, that really has to do with one’s knowledge of the grape and the terroirs under discussion, and probably most importantly, the winemaking.

Tokaj is generally a blend. and I bet there are plenty of folks who might argue that there’s a terroir component. (although I suppose you really meant Tokay)

Tokaj is in the foothills of the Zemplén Mountains, which are part of the Carpathians. Some of them have been formed by uplifting an ancient sea bed, some by volcanos, some by earthquakes. If you walk the vineyards, you can sometimes see within four meters of each other strips of white or gray or red soil. To the degree that terroir anywhere is based on soil, climate, exposure, and weather, it is most certainly there.

[Pasquale_De_Marco]

How do you folks distinguish between shared terroir and shared community winemaking philosophies ?

In Piedmont there is a narrative which suggests that some winemakers are part of a community which shares an approach often call “old style” and another community shares an approach approach called “new style”.

I’d bet many folks can identify, blind, old-style vs. new-style but the characteristics are not attributed primarily to terroir.

I suspect there are many regions in which the winemakers share techniques and influence each other often creating a community style.

Pat

[John_Morris]

@GregT

Guys - if you think Riesling really shows where it’s from, how often have you done blind tastings of Rieslings from specific regions and tried to identify them? Yeah, when you pour me something and talk about the granite and then pour me something else and talk about the limestone, I can follow you. But do it blind.

I taste 'em regularly in a brown bag group. I find it pretty easy most of the time to spot the Saars and Ruwers by their acid backbones. The Middle Mosels have a different feel, and a particular fruit profile. Meanwhile, the Nahes and Rhine wines have a different fruit profile – more peach and apricot, less apples and pears. The Nahe also has an earthy element beyond the fruit as well.