Then Manfred sold his 2013 rosé …And An Eight Track for $.01 per bottle. For Anton, still too much.
I think I have paid $60 for SQN maybe $75, can’t remember.
La Bastide Blanche is right in my wheelhouse though at $20 and I could live off of it. I am willing to pay more from people who produce Rose vs. bleed off juice to make saignee Rose, the details count.
…so we can blend them back together and have a better wine. ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
How much should a Rose cost?
Since you can take cuttings and start your own, I’d say no more than a few thorn scratches.
But for rosé wine, the answer is clear.
$14.32 a bottle.
I’ll pay more for Larry’s.
I really enjoyed Paul Lato’s rose last summer that I picked up for about $40. I should really blind taste more wines to figure out if the price premium is worth it!
I’ve heard the term “free wine” from some winemakers. As something that, before this renewed interest in the market, was often dumped down the drain or sold off in bulk, the base material is essentially free.
Some saignée is quite good, like if the grapes came in at a reasonable ripeness level.
I recently tasted 3 saignée rosés done from the same juice. (Non-commercial “worker wine”.) Quite different. Two were the standard quite good the two winemakers make each year. The third, one of them made exactly the same way as his other, but with an unconventional yeast. Amazing aromatics! I’d be fine paying $35 for that.
And yes, there are excellent purpose-made rosés that, with the grape cost and extra labor, give the wineries a notably lower return on costs compared to their other wines, due to what the market will bear.
2007 Tempier was not only the best Rosé I’ve ever had, it was one of the most delicious and interesting wines of any kind I’ve had. At the time $30 dollars or so was worth every penny. Recent vintages are closer to $40, but as others have said, it’s the benchmark, for me.
This is such an interesting thread - and there is so much information being thrown out there that I don’t think is as accurate as it once was.
Let’s discuss saignee rose first of all. I do believe there was a time that many more roses were being made using this ‘bleed’ method, and many were not well made because the winemaker was not thinking of what the ultimate finished rose should be like. We therefore ended up seeing plenty of 14+ % alcohol roses, which are far from ‘traditional’ in color, structure, or the ability to drink any other way than ice cold.
There are still many roses that are made in a saignee style, but I do believe these are generally - though not always - much better made now. Do you still see some roses north of 14%? Yes, but very few. And remember that a saignee serves two purposes - one is to make a rose but the other is to ‘concentrate’ the subsequent red wine by changing the skin to juice ratio . . . and this is not necessarily a ‘bad’ thing.
I’ve come across so many consumers who are ‘convinced’ that they could tell a saignee rose from one made in a ‘classical’ way - and I could and do challenge them to do so oftentimes. I remember when Tablas Creek’s rose was perennially considered one of the top roses in CA (and it still is) - it used to be comprised mainly of saignee, but I guess no one could tell.
Saignees are therefore not necessarily just ‘throw aways’ - yep, they are getting ‘double duty’ from their grapes, but they still need to spend the time and energy to ferment this saignee, age it and bottle it. It is therefore FAR from free.
As far as the logic goes for a domestic producer to charge over $50 for their rose because of the cost of their grapes - to me, that’s bonkers. Yep, perhaps you are paying $5000 per ton for your pinot and therefore you feel you need to charge $50 for your rose - but you are getting your money back much quicker on your rose than you would on a red wine, that will need to see a lot more time in barrel and therefore tie up capital. I do not buy this argument
I think that the question about how much a rose should cost comes down to how you view ‘rose’ as a category? Do you feel it is just supposed to be something you suck down cold without caring too much about aromatics or texture? If so, go to town on sub $15 Provence roses - no need to spend more.
On the other hand, if you feel that roses can be much more than that - that they can actually be wonderful food wines and can offer as much enjoyment as your favorite white or red wine, then spending more certainly makes sense.
Those who are using Tempier as their upper level - I would agree but it’s getting harder to find them sub-$45 unless you purchase them in advance. I am oftentimes seeing them hit closer to $50 and even higher sometimes.
I hope that helps some of you.
Cheers.
I buy Rosé wines at various prices. There are some I want to buy, even if pricier, so I just look at the offers and decide. I have some Tempier ordered at $31 (was offered at $29 the past two years). In Bandol, I’ve also bought Bastide Blanche and Pibarnon at lower prices, and Pradeaux at higher prices (so, I buy less). I also like Chateau Simone which was mentioned above, but it’s priced even higher so don’t buy very much. Clos Cibonne is another favorite. I also buy various sub $20 Rosés from various producers and appellations. I’m not as price sensitive on Rosé wines as some folks, because I really enjoy the good ones for what they are (across the price points).
-Al
Sorry, but I’m down to less than my last case. Good lord, they better release thay next vintage soon…
Agree w Anton here. I would have been livid if I paid real money for that “rose”. Ironically came closest to my previous assertion.
As a metaphor, I don’t think Yeezy Boosts are 700 dollar sneakers.
A cult of personality experience is worth whatever the humble-bragger wants to pay, which is fine by me! Glass of rosé raised to God Money ---->
I think D’Esclans Garrus is well worth the $80-$100 that it generally sells for. Short of that, I’ve had VERY few that I’d pay more than about $25-$30 for. I mostly drink Austrian rosé at this point, and for $15-$20, I think the ones I buy are as good as or better than what I can get from Provence for $25-$50. That includes Tempier, which I think is seriously overpriced. I haven’t had Simone. Have to remedy that soon.
At the risk of giving away your “trade secrets,” can you recommend some Austrian versions that are reasonably easily sourced?
Just a little while ago my answer would have been a lot different but now, having tasted the singular, absolutely fantastic 2006 Clos Cibonne Cuvée Spéciale des Vignettes, I honestly feel that something like 50 Euros would be a completely acceptable price for a wine of it’s quality, complexity and uniqueness. In USD that would probably be a little more, I guess in the $60-70 range.
I think rose should cost as much as the market will bear. PERSONALLY, though, I have never spent more than $20 for a Rose. Sure, I’m sure there are better ones out there that are most costly, but I won’t buy them. Here’s my rationale:
1.) This one is most significant: when I drink a rose, it’s most often out of a plastic cup or tumbler at a picnic or on my patio. I don’t contemplate it, I don’t closely evaluate it, I use it as refreshment and a compliment to the food. Rose, for me, is a summertime quaffer and no more. It’s the same reason I don’t spend crazy amounts on beer.
2.) For most wineries, I’ve read/heard that Rose is made from inferior grapes that weren’t/aren’t of good enough quality to be bottled as a stand-alone red wine. With the sudden huge increase in Rose popularity and volume produced, I feel like what was once discarded or bulked off is now being bottled and sold by the winery as a new-found revenue source. Why would I pay a bunch for inferior-quality raw material? I know there are some wineries that grow grapes specifically for their roses, so I’m generalizing.
3.) I don’t cellar roses, nor do I expect them to improve with age. They’re drink-now, much like cellar defenders, for which I also won’t pay that much.
4.) I’ve had tastes of more expensive Roses, but I haven’t noted a similar qualitative increase relative to the price increase.
I like 'em, but buy 'em cheap.
Pity. There are a handful or two that reward cellaring for several to 10+ years, gaining in the bottle.
It should cost an appropriate amount for the enjoyment. My problem is that this equation has very rarely turned out well, so I rarely buy Rosé. For others the equation will be reversed, and they’re very happy it doesn’t cost more, because they’d pay more if they had to.
Would a rose by any other name…?
At our house rose’ is a pool wine for summer cocktails outside.
$25 max.
Two of the guys in our tasting group refuse to drink rose’.
A couple of good local rose’s recently were Cline and Rexford.
The decent French ones cost even less.
But then in the early 1980s we used to drink Sutter Home white zinfandel…
Oh, I don’t doubt there are. That said, I cellar wines for the sole purpose of making them more enjoyable to my palate and, since I enjoy the roses I’ve had right out of the gate, I don’t necessarily see a need to cellar them. I’d imagine most of those that do improve with age are beyond my willing price point.