Where to start with Cornas?

[Greg_K]

I would drink a young (17-18) wine from a good but not top producer. Then look for an older specimen.

I would personally not recommend starting with a 17 or 18; I don’t think these will be a good representation of Cornas right now. Especially 18, which is a pretty solar vintage.

I’d look for a 2012 or 2014 Allemand Chaillot. Both are drinking really well right now and will give you a sense how good Cornas can be before you dive in…

I love 2012 and 2014 Allemand, but I don’t think its representative of Cornas in general. I find Allemand to be a pretty singular producer in the Northern Rhone (and imho the best, by a real margin), much like Rayas or Bonneau are in CdP.

For that matter, what is the expectation of Cornas? Juge, Allemand and Clape can all be great Syrah, but nothing at all like each other. I used to think of Clape as what Cornas “is” but I’m not very sure that’s right.

Personally - and this is entirely personal - I think Allemand transcends Cornas, whereas I think the other 3 are more representative of some choice in winemaking (even if I think Verset is clearly the best of these). I think old Clape used to personify Cornas to people; at times very good, but also uneven and occasionally very rustic. Verset could be that too, but the highs with Verset are so much higher. I am not the biggest Juge fan, so will let others speak to its virtues. (It’s not my thing stylistically.)

[Greg_K]

Start with the Allemand 2010 Reynard which I have in my cellar. I can tell you that this is one incredible Cornas.
If you want something to really give you an idea of what Cornas can be, go with Clape 1991. I can guarantee this one.

That’s interesting to me Don - I opened this at dinner with Charlie a few months back, and while I think this will be an amazing bottle in 20 years, I wouldn’t open more now. (I opened it because my selections in LA are a bit limited )

I think the 12 and 14 (and especially the 04 and 07) are drinking a lot better now.

[Yao_C]

Personally - and this is entirely personal - I think Allemand transcends Cornas, whereas I think the other 3 are more representative of some choice in winemaking (even if I think Verset is clearly the best of these). I think old Clape used to personify Cornas to people; at times very good, but also uneven and occasionally very rustic. Verset could be that too, but the highs with Verset are so much higher. I am not the biggest Juge fan, so will let others speak to its virtues. (It’s not my thing stylistically.)

Allemand is very good wine, certainly, but I sometimes find it disconcerting that it tastes so samey. There’s the concentration, a certain style to the fruit, a distinctive producer stamp that transcends vintages. How can this producer stamp be this prominent without some definite “choice(s) in winemaking”?

edit> I think of Juge’s chief virtue as power and complexity without weight. It delivers all the fuzzy, earthy, wild, feral charm that I’m crazy about, but with a razor sharpness. It doesn’t plod. It doesn’t beat around the bush

For that matter, what is the expectation of Cornas? Juge, Allemand and Clape can all be great Syrah, but nothing at all like each other. I used to think of Clape as what Cornas “is” but I’m not very sure that’s right.

Call me suggestible but I think there’s a specific iron, minerally sort of note that I find in Cornas. Sometimes the note is pronounced, sometimes it is hidden beneath fruit or brett or whatnot. That and the rusticity / directness of style are what makes Cornas distinctive to me

[Markus_S]

Young. Maybe 2017.

Otherwise like 1990.

Oh really? Do they shut down quickly? I was looking around and there are some decent deals for bottles in like the 2008-2012 range. You’d recommend avoiding these?

2008 Clape is beautiful and in the zone

I’ll second this. But first, a question: have you had (and do you like) Northern Rhone syrah? Because it’s a different beast than what you’ll find Stateside in places like California.

[Marshall_Manning]

I would recommend travelling back to 2003 when you could buy all the Clape, Allemand and Verset you wanted for under $40.

[Arv_R]

If OP has the ability to get down to Chambers St Wines in NYC, consider a day trip there or look at the website, and see what they suggest for your budget.

Personally, I agree with David that ‘starting’ with $500 trophies doesn’t make much sense, and seems more like self congratulations (oh look what I have in my cellar!) than practical help.

Also if OP can get shipping, Rimmerman at Garagiste does get a spectrum of Cornas in. Many of the this thread’s suggested names are not widely available, so one may have to get a few more emails than normal if interested in the AOC. (Garagiste offered a Durand Cornas sub $30 a day or so for example so if one can deal with the hype, periodically items of interest can pop up)

[John_Morris]

Start with the Allemand 2010 Reynard which I have in my cellar. I can tell you that this is one incredible Cornas.
If you want something to really give you an idea of what Cornas can be, go with Clape 1991. I can guarantee this one.

“Start” with a wine that is trading for $500?

Exactly. Read the OP, Don!

[Alan_Rath]

Clape Renaissance is one pretty decent representation that is “relatively” affordable. I see 2016 around, an outstanding vintage, though I’m not sure how it is drinking right now. Despite some comments here, 2014, though a difficult vintage, produced some really good wines. In fact, I might argue that off vintages like 2014 and 2011 actually amplify the character. It’s been a while, but a bottle of 2008 Allemand I had closer to release was fabulous. And 2008 Clape could be a killer wine eventually.

[Robert.A.Jr]

As the weather begins to cool down, I find my mind turning to the Northern Rhone. I have enjoyed N Rhone wine in the past, but have no experience with Cornas. I enjoy the savory/tapenade/meaty flavors in Northern Rhone wines, and I hear that Cornas is the place to be. But these wines are SO EXPENSIVE, so I was hoping for a little guidance for those in the know here rather than buying based on CT scores. If it helps for a recommendation, I tend to enjoy N Rhone wines that are a bit more on the lighter end of the spectrum- I know these aren’t typically light wines, but some can be a bit much for my palate. Thanks!

You really should try Cote Rotie as well, given that description of what you like.

I like that recommendation of going to, or shopping at, Chambers. They generally have very nice offerings for Northern Rhônes. Right now they have Champet and Xavier Gerard, Cotie Rotie, and I would also encourage you to find some Levet. These are around $60-$75.

And in lower price offerings, don’t forget St. Jospeh.

[Stan_Y]

As the weather begins to cool down, I find my mind turning to the Northern Rhone. I have enjoyed N Rhone wine in the past, but have no experience with Cornas. I enjoy the savory/tapenade/meaty flavors in Northern Rhone wines, and I hear that Cornas is the place to be. But these wines are SO EXPENSIVE, so I was hoping for a little guidance for those in the know here rather than buying based on CT scores. If it helps for a recommendation, I tend to enjoy N Rhone wines that are a bit more on the lighter end of the spectrum- I know these aren’t typically light wines, but some can be a bit much for my palate. Thanks!

Most everything has been covered, however Cornas is not THE place to be, that would be Hermitage , but when you have a producer like Allemand you may be surprised at which you like more.

One one hand $100+ is expensive but on the other I think Clape is still a relative bargain in a majority of vintages. It has a certain strictness and purity and core, isn’t overly heavy or rustic these days, and has a long track record. Wine with its reputation and quality is never cheap.

Generally I agree with Peter…start with a recent vintage of Clape, Allemand if you can splurge, to see what it’s about…$120-150 for Clape and $250+ for Allemand (Chaillot). I just enjoyed a bottle of '17 Clape and I bet '16 is still drinking just as well…enough that I was inspired me to buy some today.

I definitely agree with the St. Joseph suggestion, it is usually more exuberantly delicious on release…always enjoy Faury VV, and Monier-Perreol more recently.

[John_Morris]

Clape Renaissance is one pretty decent representation that is “relatively” affordable. I see 2016 around, an outstanding vintage, though I’m not sure how it is drinking right now. …

The Clape Renaissance is, indeed, a good place to start, particularly if you don’t want to break the bank. It’s genuine Cornas, but in a relatively approachable style, so you don’t have to hunt down a wine with 10+ years to get a sense of what the appellation offers.

[YLee]

Was Voge VV mentioned yet?

[David_Bu3ker]

Was Voge VV mentioned yet?

I was deliberately not mentioning it.

[Noah_C]

‘08 Clape ordered.

[MikeL238]

Was Voge VV mentioned yet?

I was deliberately not mentioning it.

Not a fan?

[Alan_Rath]

‘08 Clape ordered.

Oh crap. No one has ever taken my advice before, on literally anything. Hope you enjoy, let us know

[LasseK1]

While 2016 is a great vintage in Northern Rhone, I would not open any now. I had a lot of closed bottles lately in that vintage.

[Brian_G_r_a_f_s_t_r_o_m]

…

For that matter, what is the expectation of Cornas? Juge, Allemand and Clape can all be great Syrah, but nothing at all like each other. I used to think of Clape as what Cornas “is” but I’m not very sure that’s right.

Call me suggestible but I think there’s a specific iron, minerally sort of note that I find in Cornas. Sometimes the note is pronounced, sometimes it is hidden beneath fruit or brett or whatnot. That and the rusticity / directness of style are what makes Cornas distinctive to me

Same here. To my palate, there are stereotypical versions of St. Joseph, Cote Rotie, and Crozes-Hermitage, too (haven’t had enough Hermitage to comment there). 15 years ago, if you walked up to me and said, “Someday, Cornas is going to be super expensive”, I would have laughed - not because they’re not deserving – they are - but rather because they were generally dismissed and not held in high regard.

[Robert.A.Jr]

…

For that matter, what is the expectation of Cornas? Juge, Allemand and Clape can all be great Syrah, but nothing at all like each other. I used to think of Clape as what Cornas “is” but I’m not very sure that’s right.

Call me suggestible but I think there’s a specific iron, minerally sort of note that I find in Cornas. Sometimes the note is pronounced, sometimes it is hidden beneath fruit or brett or whatnot. That and the rusticity / directness of style are what makes Cornas distinctive to me

Same here. To my palate, there are stereotypical versions of St. Joseph, Cote Rotie, and Crozes-Hermitage, too (haven’t had enough Hermitage to comment there). 15 years ago, if you walked up to me and said, “Someday, Cornas is going to be super expensive”, I would have laughed - not because they’re not deserving – they are - but rather because they were generally dismissed and not held in high regard.

Exactly why i love Cornas and it is my fave subregion in Northern Rhône. In fact, it was Clape that hooked me. The iron notes and the rustic elegance. Clape can be brooding, Allemand and Juge more ethereal, but they all throw some of these similar notes and impressions. Even if they are quite different. It once was cheap, it is now priced appropriately relative to some peer groups. While a tough pill to swallow, Allemand at $375 make sense.

[David_Bu3ker]

Was Voge VV mentioned yet?

I was deliberately not mentioning it.

Not a fan?

Trying to keep something good quiet.