Where's the Burgundy price sweet spot?

WINE TALK
41

There are far more real grand cru wines from Clos Vougeot than from Corton in my experience, indeed Clos Vougeot can be pretty exciting.

42

Although Doc Weinberg and I are worlds apart in what we have in our respective cellars, I value his contributions here as much as anyone, and more than most. And if after decades of acquiring Burgs he is of the opinion that if he were to do it all again, that he would focus more on village and 1er’s, I would take that as sound advice.

43

Definitely agree with that.

44

Greg…hunting grounds should be good for someone who knows how to hunt ? Am I right ?

Tom…thanks for your support !!

45

To my palate, “good beer” is an oxymoron. Loathsome stuff.

46

**… on what you prefer, beautiful super pure exuberant fruits…


That is what I call a beautiful TNs.

I also often prefer to open a red burgundy…while the fruits …are still there !!

The fruits of 2014 maybe still there.

2017 should be there for at least 2 if not maybe 3 - hopefully

47

Going back a few years, with 3 annual trips to Napa, the highlights were: Roy Piper and Pliny the Elder!

48

[winner.gif]

49

So are the odds for a burgundy to be aged gracefully to a point one is to consider as be magical. [head-bang.gif]

Often…the biggest disappointment for opening Grand-wine …which expressed graceful and then closed down after …30 minutes …and became muted blush . Once may say…you opened it way too early. Guess…why …there is a saying that there is …no great wine only bottle.

Not looking for argument but this my very personal view and very my personal basic fact for my own employment of red burgundy [bye.gif] . grouphug

Ask Robert Parker…he often…say : Peter - drink your Rousseau CdBeze while the fruits are there [truce.gif] !!

BTW…I seldom drink Pinot not from Burgundy which is a bad basis in my wine-life; mabe sad …but that is the way…I am, specially at my age.

50

Tom…please do not get me wrong - aged old red burgundy when it is on, there is nothing could compared with it.

What I am saying is…aging a good village wine from a good producer from a good vintage year is not a guarantee that the bottle of the wine will turn into a beauty. AC is there for a reason despite the fact it was born with it.

There is another man-made factor to be considered. A good producer is likely to elevage his village wine to be enjoyed at a younger age than his 1er cru and/or grand-cru.

This is basic way how things should work in CdOr. A vigneron is always guessing given the fact the growing conditions of each year is different…

51

I dont think I would be taking Burgundy advice from Robert Parker, but you feel free to drink your wine whenever you feel like it.

52

Generally it’s indicative of the P in QPR.

53

I agree with you completely and this is one reason why I focus much of my attention on top premier crus, and certain vintages for grand crus. It can be a very long wait for certain burgundies to mature and a lot can happen in that time. Plus many of the rarest wines are made in very small quantities and can be less predictable over time since the winemaker does not have the luxury of discarding a barrel or two when bottling the final product.

Roumier Musigny is my favorite example of this. When it is on, it is incredible wine. But such a tiny quantity is made that even the slightest events can have a profound impact on its longevity and performance. These days I could not possibly afford even a single bottle of Roumier Musigny, but I stopped buying it long before that when I stopped getting 3-4 bottles every vintage. The wine is just too unpredictable to trust that you are going to get magical experiences when you only have 1-2 bottles to open.

Leroy can be a bit treacherous as well. Usually the wines come out fine (ok, incredible) in the long run, but not always- and like you say Peter, once you get into very old wines it comes down very often to individual bottles.

Generally speaking, I am not sure this line of thinking is the ideal way to make buying decisions- but when you consider the prices being asked today, as well as the very small allocations- as a practical matter I have found it necessary to some degree to- within the realm of burgundies I know and love- give preference to wines that are likely to at least begin to emerge from being shut down after 10-12 years (which can be vintage-dependent to some degree of course) and also wines where I can get my hands on 4-6 bottles instead of just 2-3.

With proper storage and some degree of experience, and assuming a bottle is not corked or off- which does of course happen at times, I think the vast majority of opening experiences can impart knowledge and intellectual satisfaction plus at least some degree of pure enjoyment. But even then, truly magical moments are elusive.

54

Friends,

If you are looking for producers a bit under the radar that make good wines at affordable prices : try the following domaines:
-R SIRUGUE at Vosne (a tiny bit of Grands Echezeaux, Vosne PETITS MONTS, CHAMBOLLE and VOSNE VIEILLES VIGNES). decent prices and they still accept customers.
-D GALLOIS at Gevrey : COMBE AUX MOINES, PETITS CAZETIERS, Gevrey VIEILLES VIGNES, Charmes CHAMBERTIN. Again decent prices and good wine
-HUDELOT-BAILLLET: superb Chambolle CHARMES, chambolle BORNIQUES, Chambolle CRAs , Chambolle Vieilles Vignes and BONNES MARES. A fraction of the prices chez ROUMIER, MUGNIER, COMTE G De Vogüe but then again they are superstars…)

-MILLOT at Nuits (Vosne Village, ECH, CV and GE : very good wines.
-I would add a few domaines at NUITS that still open their doors for new customers…

SINCERELY JOHAN

55

If you don’t want to age a wine that benefits a great deal from aging, I highly recommend buying something that does not need to be aged. There are plenty of wines around the world you can buy that offer a great deal of upfront fruit that you can be drink the night you purchase it.

56

Disagree. Besides the fact that many wines are made for earlier drinking at this point, I’ve had some outstanding experiences with younger burgundy, as recently as last night (I posted TNs on 2017 Rousseau csj) and while I’ve had great aged versions, including lots of 70-80s DRC and they’ve been great, I really enjoy younger burgundy as well, for different reasons.

57

So…you did not enjoy my joke… [highfive.gif]

58

I’ve pretty much stopped buying Burgundy after spending years finding the wine values I was comfortable with. Most of those wines are now so price inflated that they no longer appeal to me. I have enough Burgundy to “cruise to the finish” and feel bad for those just getting started in the game.

“Value” in every day wines can still be found, at approx: $30 - $75. When wines I paid $35 for (and can pull older vintages from the cellar) are now $100 - $125+, I don’t see the point in buying any. Pricing variation has certainly gotten crazier.

Although some Burgs can be quite tasty when young, the real bang comes with age IMHO.

If I were starting out…I’d try to scour the roads less traveled in the lower price ranges. Try to focus on specific small, lesser known producers (likely less famous appellations) with an eye towards the styles that satisfy. They probably won’t win popularity contests. Splurge for a few GCs and upper 1ers (after tasting at LaPaulee, events, dinners, etc., if at all possible) but don’t dwell there unless your bank account can sustain it.

At the moment, a comfortable retirement is within my reach. A few bottles of DRC, Rousseau, Leroy etc., would certainly be nice but I’m too old to buy young and wait for peak drinking.

YMMV.

RT

59

I’ve had wonderfully enjoyable young burgundy on countless occasions but one misses so much.

60

I get it now, Thank you.