WTF is the problem with Chardonnay?

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

There is a world of crappy Chardonnay, but you should venture into the Willamette Valley(and Chablis of course where pricing is still half sane).

Look to:
Bethel Heights
Haden Fig “Juliette”
Cameron
Walter Scott
Arterberry Maresh
Johan
Vincent

…and my wines. For <$30, Cameron, Vincent, Walter Scott, and Goodfellow all produce excellent Chardonnay that is anything but the emphasis of this yhread.

I’m so broke after buying all the barrels for this years harvest that I’m literally down to pennies, but when I recoup I’ll get one of your Chards, Marcus.

Always happy to swap bottles(it’s the only way I acquired wines other than my own for a couple of years.)

[Marc_Hauser]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

To be serious, you do not have to like Chardonnay. We all have grape varieties and wine regions where we like the wines more and others where we like the wines less. For example, I do not really like Syrah or Grenache that much and don’t buy much if any Rhone wines (I will occasionally drink a Cotes du Rhone or other cheaper one, but for me, I cannot see paying real money for these types of wines). I am also not really that into Chianti - while every once in a while I will find one I enjoy, for the most part, it is one of my least favorite wines to try blind. I dislike too many of them.

But, tastes do change over time. 15 years ago, I probably would have included Champagne on this list. While I find there are still a number of Champagne that have too little flavor and somehow combine too much acid with too much residual sugar and still are not well balanced (a bunch of these are larger basic cuvees), I am liking the better ones more and more over time, esp. wines like Taittinger Comte de Champagne and Dom Ruinart.

So, focus on what you like, don’t worry about what you don’t like, but keep an open mind to finding wines that change your mind.

I’d add - remember, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad.

[Howard_Cooper]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

To be serious, you do not have to like Chardonnay. We all have grape varieties and wine regions where we like the wines more and others where we like the wines less. For example, I do not really like Syrah or Grenache that much and don’t buy much if any Rhone wines (I will occasionally drink a Cotes du Rhone or other cheaper one, but for me, I cannot see paying real money for these types of wines). I am also not really that into Chianti - while every once in a while I will find one I enjoy, for the most part, it is one of my least favorite wines to try blind. I dislike too many of them.

But, tastes do change over time. 15 years ago, I probably would have included Champagne on this list. While I find there are still a number of Champagne that have too little flavor and somehow combine too much acid with too much residual sugar and still are not well balanced (a bunch of these are larger basic cuvees), I am liking the better ones more and more over time, esp. wines like Taittinger Comte de Champagne and Dom Ruinart.

So, focus on what you like, don’t worry about what you don’t like, but keep an open mind to finding wines that change your mind.

I’d add - remember, just because you don’t like it doesn’t mean it’s bad.

Exactly.

[J_Rock]

As someone who is still new to appreciating wine, I’ve been trying to explore Chardonnay and haven’t been having much success; in fact, I’ve had less success with Chardonnay than any other varietal thus far… After experiencing a few bad to mediocre cheaper ($15 - $20ish) Chardonnay’s, I made the mistake of listening to multiple people recommending Rombauer Chardonnay. I’m still not sure whether I got a bad bottle, but it was very unpleasant. I thought the nose and the mouthfeel were actually good, but I found the amount of heat and unpleasant bitter/chemical aftertaste to be unacceptable. It was only a half bottle, but we still had to dump it.

I’ve since found that I really love Lagom Spanish Springs Vineyard Chardonnay, but I wouldn’t mind finding good Chardonnays for $20 - $35…

[Brian_Glas]

There is nothing wrong with Chardonnay. I frequently buy them on our trips to Oregon. I love the Haden Fig/Evesham Wood, Walter Scott, Vincent, Anderson Family, Gran Moraine, and Seven of Hearts.

[Adam_Frisch]

That’s why that Failla one was so sublime - it was everything a nice white should be. It got me excited about Chardonnay again. Since then, though, not much luck. The Lioco ones I mentioned are good, but not as good as that one. But now I have a few to try from the board!

[J.Vizuete]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

To be serious, you do not have to like Chardonnay. We all have grape varieties and wine regions where we like the wines more and others where we like the wines less. For example, I do not really like Syrah or Grenache that much and don’t buy much if any Rhone wines (I will occasionally drink a Cotes du Rhone or other cheaper one, but for me, I cannot see paying real money for these types of wines). I am also not really that into Chianti - while every once in a while I will find one I enjoy, for the most part, it is one of my least favorite wines to try blind. I dislike too many of them.

But, tastes do change over time. 15 years ago, I probably would have included Champagne on this list. While I find there are still a number of Champagne that have too little flavor and somehow combine too much acid with too much residual sugar and still are not well balanced (a bunch of these are larger basic cuvees), I am liking the better ones more and more over time, esp. wines like Taittinger Comte de Champagne and Dom Ruinart.

So, focus on what you like, don’t worry about what you don’t like, but keep an open mind to finding wines that change your mind.

Great post Howard.

I personally love Chardonnay but rarely buy bottles <$20 much longer unless they are targeted purchases, half bottles, or serious sales. I will admit a tolerance (but not preference) for country club chards (read cheap, overoaked) which is diminishing in time. It’s not a medicinal or bitter note (although I’ve had that in grocery store bottles or those with heat damage, past prime, etc…) Some of my favorite descriptors for bad chardonnay are eloquently documented here : The 16 bottle Chardonnay Blowout Challenge! - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

I would argue it is among the most versatile and robust varieties out there, evidenced by the presence of excellent examples in nearly every region it’s planted (South Africa, Central CA, Sonoma, Oregon, Italy, and obviously, Burgundy). I haven’t had compelling chards from Australia, Canada, the UK or South America, but I’ll bet others can suggest where to start. If you haven’t had Aubert, Ramey, Liquid Farm, Ceritas, or any number of excellent Burgundy producers, I suggest to start there before you rule it out.

[dcornutt]

I am open to trying some Chard from Oregon. Alan G says I would love it and he knows my palate. I love Mt Eden and Rhys. Several of Jamie’s at Kutch have been wonderful. Ramey especially Hyde vineyard is wonderful. Liquid Farm and HdV make good chard too. I am a lover of Aubert also even though these are very stylized wines.

There are so many who are trying to see if they can get people to drink overripe fruit with tons of new oak. This is destroying the essence of Chardonnay in my opinion. I think this is more of a problem than location. I do have a preference for Chardonnay from Burgundy however. Economics is a totally different issue. FWIW.

[Howard_Cooper]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

To be serious, you do not have to like Chardonnay. We all have grape varieties and wine regions where we like the wines more and others where we like the wines less. For example, I do not really like Syrah or Grenache that much and don’t buy much if any Rhone wines (I will occasionally drink a Cotes du Rhone or other cheaper one, but for me, I cannot see paying real money for these types of wines). I am also not really that into Chianti - while every once in a while I will find one I enjoy, for the most part, it is one of my least favorite wines to try blind. I dislike too many of them.

But, tastes do change over time. 15 years ago, I probably would have included Champagne on this list. While I find there are still a number of Champagne that have too little flavor and somehow combine too much acid with too much residual sugar and still are not well balanced (a bunch of these are larger basic cuvees), I am liking the better ones more and more over time, esp. wines like Taittinger Comte de Champagne and Dom Ruinart.

So, focus on what you like, don’t worry about what you don’t like, but keep an open mind to finding wines that change your mind.

Great post Howard.

I personally love Chardonnay but rarely buy bottles <$20 much longer unless they are targeted purchases, half bottles, or serious sales. I will admit a tolerance (but not preference) for country club chards (read cheap, overoaked) which is diminishing in time. It’s not a medicinal or bitter note (although I’ve had that in grocery store bottles or those with heat damage, past prime, etc…) Some of my favorite descriptors for bad chardonnay are eloquently documented here : The 16 bottle Chardonnay Blowout Challenge! - WINE TALK - WineBerserkers

I would argue it is among the most versatile and robust varieties out there, evidenced by the presence of excellent examples in nearly every region it’s planted (South Africa, Central CA, Sonoma, Oregon, Italy, and obviously, Burgundy). I haven’t had compelling chards from Australia, Canada, the UK or South America, but I’ll bet others can suggest where to start. If you haven’t had Aubert, Ramey, Liquid Farm, Ceritas, or any number of excellent Burgundy producers, I suggest to start there before you rule it out.

I have enjoyed Ceritas and Ramey when I have had them, but have not liked Aubert the few times I have had it.

[J.Vizuete]

I meant “you” generally and toward the OP in my post (I think all wine lovers should try great examples of chardonnay before deciding it doesn’t appeal to them) . I recognize your (Mr. Cooper’’s) long experience with white burgundy from other threads.

I did have a 15 PYCM Corton Charlemagne recently that was a dead ringer for 2015 Aubert Lauren… IMO Mark Aubert’s chards are stylistically closer to white burg than some of the more blousy Sonoma producers, even his alma mater, Peter Michael. A 2012 Belle Cotê tasted on Friday was overly tropical, high in alcohol and disappointingly hot and clipped on the finish.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

I am open to trying some Chard from Oregon… I am a lover of Aubert also even though these are very stylized wines.

Don’t think you’re going to find an Aubert equivalent in Oregon. I could be wrong because it’s not my style. If you enjoy Rhys and Kutch, then there’s plenty of enjoyment ahead.

RT

[Adam_Frisch]

Had Jim Clendenen’s Chardonnay “The Pip” form Santa Maria this evening. Very nice, and nothing of that medicine taste.

[Merrill_Lindquist]

Try Ceritas. We had a bottle of 2017 Heintz Vineyard the other night - I and a Chardonnay producer - and it was lovely. Right where I want it (although I am certain it would be even better 4 years from now).

[Jim_Stewart]

More than any other grape varietal, I seem to always get a kind of chemical, artificial taste with them, unless I kind of splash on Failla or Lioco etc. But all the everyday Chards I buy are all awful. Oak can muddle things up, but it’s not that, it’s something else that just feels processed. What is it?

Late to this thread and all its twists and turns and new directions. I can offer no insight into the strange artificial taste issue, but FWIW I can recommend to you an “everyday” Chardonnay that does not have this problem and is the opposite of awful - 2017 Fevre Champs Royeaux Chablis, with a $16.97 everyday price at Total Wine and elsewhere.

[K_John_Joseph]

But all the everyday Chards I buy

Can you provide us some examples? Define “everyday chards”. From my experience on this board, an “every day” wine can mean many, many things.

[Adam_Frisch]

But all the everyday Chards I buy

Can you provide us some examples? Define “everyday chards”. From my experience on this board, an “every day” wine can mean many, many things.

Stags’ Leap was a good example. Found at Costco, bought a bunch of them as the price was attractive and the producer is respectable. Oaky and medicinal. But admittedly, most of them were even below that range - $15 New Zealand ones etc.

[Josh_Grossman]

I’m digressing, but I just opened a 2014 Argot Simpatico Ranch Bennett Valley Cali Chardonnay that was premoxed!!! To a T of what I’ve experienced from across the pond. WTF Chardonnay?

[jleedionne]

Your mantra is “low impact vineyards, focus on rare, forgotten, under-appreciated or historic grape varietals” and you are purchasing Stags’ Leap Chardonnay from Costco and complaining about it?

Borderline troll thread.

[RichardFlack]

Ok time for thread drift…,
What about Pinot Grigio and Gamay in this regard?

[Josh_Grossman]

Ok time for thread drift…,
What about Pinot Grigio and Gamay in this regard?

Grigio is tasteless compared to Pinot gris!!!