WTF is the problem with Chardonnay?

[John_Glas]

The problem? It’s not Riesling.

Agree but I still like Chards. I would say if it is a Germany Riesling it has a decant chance of being very drinkable.

[Richard_T_r_i_m_p_i]

The only issue with Chardonnay is that it is grown outside Burgundy and Chablis.

Isn’t all chablis burgundy but not all Burgundy is chablis?

Oregon. You’ve been shown the water.

RT

[Anton_D]

The problem? It’s not Riesling.

I hear you.

Maybe Chard with some extra RS?

Petrol, good, chard, chemical.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

More than any other grape varietal, I seem to always get a kind of chemical, artificial taste with them, unless I kind of splash on Failla or Lioco etc. But all the everyday Chards I buy are all awful. Oak can muddle things up, but it’s not that, it’s something else that just feels processed. What is it?

“awful”? Thousands of winemakers can’t be selling, and millions of consumers wouldn’t be buying, “awful” wine.

Maybe you just don’t like it? I don’t like Rhone varietals. I respect them, I just don’t like them. Like Radiohead - I respect the music, I just don’t get it.

…mmm…Barefoot?

…white Zinfandel?

It took me 6 years to get my mom to try my Rosé because of her experience with Matteus in the 70s…

But Radiohead…it’s so nice to see that someone else feels the same.

[GregT]

More than any other grape variety, I seem to always get a kind of chemical, artificial taste with them, unless I kind of splash on Failla or Lioco etc. But all the everyday Chards I buy are all awful. Oak can muddle things up, but it’s not that, it’s something else that just feels processed. What is it?

What are some of the everyday Chards? If you’re shopping the aisles at Alberstons or Ralphs or Total Wine, you’re going to get “processed” Chardonnay just like you’ll get processed cheese.

If they’re making quantities like millions of bottles, they’re going to b,e building to spec, right? So they’ll adjust acidity, oak and toast, sugar, and whatever else they need to do to get the basic wine they’re looking for.

But Chardonnay is almost always “processed”, isn’t it? On its own, it’s a fairly insipid grape. So it’s left on the lees, which may be stirred, it’s fermented in oak or aged in oak, it’s chaptalized in Burgundy as needed, it’s even acidified if needed. When you think of it, what are the immediate flavors and aromas that come to mind? With Sauvignon Blanc you instantly think of grapefruit pith, with Riesling you think of petrol and sulfur, with Chenin Blanc you think of dried grasses - Chardonnay brings up . . . ? Mostly whatever the wine maker did to it.

Doesn’t mean there aren’t good ones. We don’t drink a lot of it but I’m happy to open any number of them, including many from CA.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

The only issue with Chardonnay is that it is grown outside Burgundy and Chablis.

Isn’t all chablis burgundy but not all Burgundy is chablis?

Oregon. You’ve been shown the water.

RT

But I am not going to drink…

2017 Jobard Muersault “ Les Poruzots” $150/btl
2017 Jobard Muersault “Charmes” $200/btl

2017 Jobard Bourgogne Blanc $85/btl

2017 Goodfellow “Richard’s Cuvée” Whistling Ridge $50/btl

No brainer(although I am biased). There’s more moderately priced white Burgundy but too much of the pricing is nuts.

For GregT with respect…Chardonnay grape flavors courtesy of good vineyard sites:
Lemon curd, meyer lemon, almond flowers, oyster shells, orchard fruits, stone fruits, star fruit, wintermelon, mint, wet stones, pear tart, quince, yuzu, verbeena, basil, hops, iris, kumquat, apple pie, goose berry(Chardonnay musque clones have plenty of similarity to Sauvignon blanc), crushed gravel, wet wool, seashells, salinity, granny smith apples, coriander, etc.

The Chardonnay is a blank canvas story comes from people whose vineyards are blank canvasses.

There is a world of crappy Chardonnay, but you should venture into the Willamette Valley(and Chablis of course where pricing is still half sane).

Look to:
Bethel Heights
Haden Fig “Juliette”
Cameron
Walter Scott
Arterberry Maresh
Johan
Vincent

…and my wines. For <$30, Cameron, Vincent, Walter Scott, and Goodfellow all produce excellent Chardonnay that is anything but the emphasis of this yhread.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

It’s winemaker then terroir in that order.

This is increasingly becoming the case across the board these days . . .

Cheers.

Ugh…Seriously, try some Willamette Valley chardonnays.

Or Rhys, or Kutch.

[Jayson_Cohen]

More than any other grape varietal, I seem to always get a kind of chemical, artificial taste with them, unless I kind of splash on Failla or Lioco etc. But all the everyday Chards I buy are all awful. Oak can muddle things up, but it’s not that, it’s something else that just feels processed. What is it?

“awful”? Thousands of winemakers can’t be selling, and millions of consumers wouldn’t be buying, “awful” wine.

Maybe you just don’t like it? I don’t like Rhone varietals. I respect them, I just don’t like them. Like Radiohead - I respect the music, I just don’t get it.

Cheating a little:

- YouTube

[Pau1_M3nk3s]

The only issue with Chardonnay is that it is grown outside Burgundy and Chablis.

Also it can be grown in Champagne

Ok. I will be magnanimous today. Stony a Hill, Mount Eden and a few others can grow it in California. But, Jay, I cannot go as far as Rombauer. Sorry.

I have drunk Chateau Montelena Estate, Stony Hill and Rhys Horseshoe all in the last three days. Not a dog in the bunch. It’s been a while since having had Rombauer (thankfully). Let’s just leave that one out. But there are plenty of other California and Oregon Vintners that know their way around the Chardonnay grape. And plenty of regions outside Burgundy produce some very fine juice.

[Rory_K]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

Ughh that aspirin flavor has put me off more than a few low to mid range sparklers.

That said, if I’m not mistaken there are quite a few additives allowed in the US that might be more apparent to some than others, and because of Chardonnay’s place in the market maybe they are more common with that variety. People are always surprised that producers can use so many different chemicals and treatments without mentioning on the label. Of course people have different thresholds to detect certain flavors so that can explain it…

[Adam_Frisch]

There is a world of crappy Chardonnay, but you should venture into the Willamette Valley(and Chablis of course where pricing is still half sane).

Look to:
Bethel Heights
Haden Fig “Juliette”
Cameron
Walter Scott
Arterberry Maresh
Johan
Vincent

…and my wines. For <$30, Cameron, Vincent, Walter Scott, and Goodfellow all produce excellent Chardonnay that is anything but the emphasis of this yhread.

I’m so broke after buying all the barrels for this years harvest that I’m literally down to pennies, but when I recoup I’ll get one of your Chards, Marcus.

[Howard_Cooper]

I guess I’m lucky in that the zaftig, trashy super market Chardonnay is what makes me happy. I had a 17 Sebastiani Chard [North Coast] last week which is probably a B- wine for most critics/berserkers, but I liked it, and realistically, would have been just as happy with oaky Bogle for half the cost. Beringer’s PR is probably my favorite of this style.

My well heeled, and better palated, friends keep trying to convince me of the wonders of Burgundy but I never really understand & enjoy it as much. Chablis with shellfish is awesome, but is a narrow use case in our house, and one that might get handled by a Loire white anyways.

Fortunately we have a vast spectrum of wines available. It seems like the only wine/producer that there is universal affection for is Ridge.

Guess I am not that big a fan of zaftig chardonnay, but I think of that being more like Kistler or something like that than supermarket Chardonnay.

[Chris_Seiber]

There is some excellent chardonnay being made in California, including ones that embody none of the Eurosnob stereotypes of California wine. And a substantial and growing number of excellent Chardonnays made in Oregon.

But it’s up each of us whether we want to be open to those and to try them or not. It’s totally fine if you don’t. We don’t all have to try everything.

I think it’s a pretty common journey for a wine enthusiast to think early on that chardonnay is gross and other white varieties are better, but then later to discover the particular chardonnays (whether new world, old world, or especially both) that fit your palate and to realize those highs are higher than most of the highs for other white grapes. I’ve gone through that, and I’ve seen many others do the same.

[Evan_Pontoriero]

Could be you have an issue with some Chardonnay flavors. To me, baby aspirin = loquat.

Loico Sonoma Chardonnay description from the winemaker

Winemaker Notes
This wine has an aroma of lemon oil, loquat, and quartz. The flavor is reminiscent of fennel bulb, key lime, and chamomile.

[GregT]

Interesting Evan. I made a bunch of loquat jam and chutney from our trees earlier this summer and I never associated that flavor. Now I have to open some. I’m thinking maybe it’s a citric acid kind of thing?

I’ve only had yours once, but did not get any kind of aspirin note.

[Evan_Pontoriero]

Greg,

My Chard is more honeysuckle, asian pear and pineapple, thanks for trying it.

I have had loquat in Chards before from other producers but can’t think which ones off the top of my head as it doesn’t bother me so I didn’t create a note in my head. When Adam got to the descriptor of baby aspirin, I knew I had tasted that before and did a search for loquat and Chardonnay. Maybe I’m the only one that makes that association, there are different loquat cultivars. Reading the Lioco descriptors it is 13.5 ABV so I wouldn’t suspect that it was an early pick that created more citrus notes that veered to loquat. Probably terroir.

[Evan_Pontoriero]

LOL looking at the list again Durrell is known for loquat so for me that eliminated the “cheap” Chardonnays.

[Tran_Bronstein]

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

First, it’s not a fault you have. It’s just how you approach wine and no need to apologize for it. Second, your description hit it on the nail for me as to why I always detested Chardonnay both before and after becoming a wine drinker and was a charter card-carrying ABC (Anything But Chardonnay) member for so long. It finally took tasting a few good Cali Chards at a California Wine Fair here in Toronto and then Mike Grammer and pals introducing me to good Burgundy wines that finally turned the trick for me. But I haven’t forgotten what I disliked about it which is exactly what you describe. I have less than two cases of Chardonnay in my collection and every single bottle is a Burgundy. I won’t take a chance on any Cali Chard unless it’s Montelena or DuMol and I anxiously await the opportunity to try one of Jaime Kutch’s. I generally avoid supermarket level and hot climate Chardonnay like the plague. Some Ontario Chardonnay I’ve had has been very good as well.

[Howard_Cooper]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

To be serious, you do not have to like Chardonnay. We all have grape varieties and wine regions where we like the wines more and others where we like the wines less. For example, I do not really like Syrah or Grenache that much and don’t buy much if any Rhone wines (I will occasionally drink a Cotes du Rhone or other cheaper one, but for me, I cannot see paying real money for these types of wines). I am also not really that into Chianti - while every once in a while I will find one I enjoy, for the most part, it is one of my least favorite wines to try blind. I dislike too many of them.

But, tastes do change over time. 15 years ago, I probably would have included Champagne on this list. While I find there are still a number of Champagne that have too little flavor and somehow combine too much acid with too much residual sugar and still are not well balanced (a bunch of these are larger basic cuvees), I am liking the better ones more and more over time, esp. wines like Taittinger Comte de Champagne and Dom Ruinart.

So, focus on what you like, don’t worry about what you don’t like, but keep an open mind to finding wines that change your mind.

[Marcus_Goodfellow]

Yes, this was a lower end Chard, for sure. Mass market. Don’t even recall what producer, I suppressed it. But a few months back I had Stag’s Leap (which was also on the cheaper side, admittedly) - same thing. And numerous other ones. It’s what’s kept me away from Chards over the years and only by tasting Failla’s Big Egg one last year did I dare start buying again to see if it was problem with me.

On of my faults is I can’t describe wines as well as many of you. Just don’t have that gene that can distinguish 10 different tastes in a wine. I can only describe one or two. But to expand on the description; it as a harshness that reminds me of drinking aspirin. A chemical, medicinal taste.

To be serious, you do not have to like Chardonnay. We all have grape varieties and wine regions where we like the wines more and others where we like the wines less. For example, I do not really like Syrah or Grenache that much and don’t buy much if any Rhone wines (I will occasionally drink a Cotes du Rhone or other cheaper one, but for me, I cannot see paying real money for these types of wines). I am also not really that into Chianti - while every once in a while I will find one I enjoy, for the most part, it is one of my least favorite wines to try blind. I dislike too many of them.

But, tastes do change over time. 15 years ago, I probably would have included Champagne on this list. While I find there are still a number of Champagne that have too little flavor and somehow combine too much acid with too much residual sugar and still are not well balanced (a bunch of these are larger basic cuvees), I am liking the better ones more and more over time, esp. wines like Taittinger Comte de Champagne and Dom Ruinart.

So, focus on what you like, don’t worry about what you don’t like, but keep an open mind to finding wines that change your mind.

+1

Great post.