Based on this, I am keen to know which CM based domaines that you rate above Mugnier and Roumier?
thnx ![[cheers.gif]](/uploads/db3686/original/2X/0/0ff9bfcdb0964982cd3240b6159868fbdf215b1a.gif "cheers"){kind=small}
I refuse to rank the Chambolles I have had from Mugnier, Roumier, Fourrier and Barthod . Top stuff, different styles,
I don’t think I know how to rank a domaine in the manner you’re looking for. How does the ranking shake out if I’d rather drink Drouhin’s Chambolle 1er Cru or Jadot’s Fuees over Mugnier or Roumier’s village Chambolle? How does it affect the ranking that you can get 2 to 4 bottles of the Drouhin or Jadot for the price of one of the Mugnier or Roumier? Is Roumier the better domaine because its village wine is competitive in quality with a Jadot 1er cru, or is Jadot the better domaine because it makes a better Chambolle than Roumier at a third the price? Does it affect the curve that Mugnier’s village Chambolle is actually half 1er cru? Or, are we looking solely at the highest highs and comparing grand cru to grand cru? Unless there’s more people on this board spending $10k on Roumier Musigny than posted TNs would indicate, it’s tough to compare apples to apples. But my favorite Musignys have been Drouhin’s. Separately, how do holdings enter into the equation? How do you rank producers who own Musigny, Bonnes Mares, and Amoureuses against those that don’t? Dujac makes a rocking village Chambolle + Gruenchers + Bonnes Mares, are they disqualified from ranking alongside Mugnier and Roumier (or de Vogue) because most of their GCs are elsewhere and they don’t have Musigny or Amoureuses? On the flip side, neither Mugnier nor Roumier make La Combe d’Orveaux, the #1 or #2 premier cru in the village, but Faiveley and Clavelier both make superb Combe d’Orveaux (and for less $ than the Mugnier and Roumier village wines), and plenty of other producers like Barthod have a much broader portfolio of 1ers than Mugnier or Roumier, who only make 2 and 3, respectively (or 1 and 2 if you consider Amoureuses as de facto GC), and are lacking some of the best 1ers in the village. All of this stuff is hopelessly subjective.
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A 2010 Amiot-Servelle Derrière la Grange was my red Burgundy siren song, the bottle that finally hit me over the head and made me understand the whole collective lunacy. If that is still far from the heights that the appellation can reach (as this thread seems to indicate), all I can say is - wow.
Friends,
I agree that ROUMIER and MUGNIER belong at the very top. Do not forget HUDELOT-BAILLET however. Decent prices (much cheaper than the 2 superstars) and winemaker D LE GUEN is a rising star. More concentraded wines than the ones found at Berteau’s and at least as fine as BARTHOD’s . Delicious Borniques, Cras and Charmes and even a bit of BONNES MARES. Look into it.You will not be disappointed.
SINCERELY JOHAN
Johan, thank you for contributing your recommendations to so many thread.
thnx for the reply. I feel like we are talking at cross purposes and maybe I misinterpreted your OP. In fairness, I interpreted your comment to mean " people are probably placing Mugnier and Roumier at the top based on fame and reputation rather than what is in the bottle". I know this is not what you actually posted - but it seemed like a pretty clear inference to me anyway.
Also I asked about rating not ranking. We may choose to (subjectively) rate three domaines as being of A quality but that does not tell us who is ranked A1 A2 etc. So My question was not about ranking, simply who you you rated higher than the two producers named.
To make the comparison easier - I would suggest to simply look at the each producer CM villages wine. There is no need add extra complexity by asking who has holding in Les Amoureuses or Musigny etc. Who you think consistently makes a (subjectively) better CM villages wine than these two?
I agree this is also hopelessly subjective but that is what are we are always doing here in WB! I remain unclear; you say you are not able give a clear answer but you are able to say that Mugnier and Roumier are being named at the top for reasons other than what is in the bottle…That feels like a clear judgement to me.
I like Clavelier’s Combe d’Orveau a lot and have bought and cellared it for nearly 20 years. Personally I would not put it near the top of CM 1er crus. I have found the wine lack some of the finesse and fine boned structure that I love in the best Chambolle wines. To me it is a little bit like it’s maker, a big strong rugby player…
All the best
Agree 100%. Hudelot Baillet and Bertheau are my top Chambolle holdings. I buy every year. Sadly they are much harder to acquire in the states. I love and buy Roumier and Mugnier when I can, but I really enjoy these QPR options.
Well, Brady, Amoureuses 2013 is the only Bertheau I have had (in Le Chambolle in Chambolle last year) and although it had a lot of Chambolle charm, it ended with a somewhat unpleasant bitterness. Otherwise, it was very fine and Chambolle reputation style.
Mugnier and Roumier at the top.
Vogue
Dujac’s Gruenchers is top top Chambolle
Drouhin
Friends,
Had a perfect ROUMIER BONNES MARES 2009 yesterday alongside a very good BONNES MARES of the same year by BRUNO CLAIR. The 2008 BEAUX BRUNS by Ghislaine Barthod that closed a perfect evening watching the NBA finals was no match but was, however, very good. All wines were tasted blind.
SINCERELY JOHAN
Late 90’s Early 00’s. Craft in NYC. over hen of the woods and a little bird with buckshot in the leg, A glass of Sigaut C-M Les Sentiers 1er and suddenly the world cracked open. A living wine. the life in that glass and the nuance and the distance and the flashes of a fleeting glimpse of another world appeared. And garnet and strawberry and a little hunting lodge. And perfect. It did as much as that land could do. So I always have a soft spot for Sigaut.
- or 6
Pity about the Amoureuses, Antoine. One doesn’t drink that wine for its bitter, unpleasant finish! Try a warm vintage, and let me know how it goes. The ‘09 village was excellent last time I tried.
What is the QPR wine of Chambolle? It’s not exactly a wallet friendly appellation!
Dear Billy,
Wallet friendly appellation? Burgundy rarely is. The thrill of really drinking (instead of tasting it) a great bottle, however, is enormous. To me it is beyond any doubt one of real treats in life.
A Burgundy-addict JOHAN
Sigaut
Digioia Royer
Felletig
Thanks Michael,
I see Sigaut is available below $50. A great price for a really top appellation!
Sigaut sentiers vv is best in their line up imo.
I like this comment, points one towards the “cherries” of each producer…I’m not well-versed in these “under the radar” producers so can others chime in?..what is the best wine of Felettig and Digioia Royer stable, for example? I guess it’s easy to say Musigny for Mugnier, Les Amour. and Musigny for Roumier…but I like Mugnier’s Fuees a lot, I’ve had 96, 00, 01, 02, 03 in the past and they were stunning…much easier on the wallet too!